For the Love of Small Business with Rachel Spencer
Description:
Welcome to this week’s episode of the Future-Proof your Business podcast.
In this week's episode and the next in my For the love of small business series, I’m delighted to be joined by the brilliant Rachel Spencer.
Rachel is a journalist and a pet business marketing coach and works with small business owners in the pet industry, showing them how to share the stories behind their businesses and giving them the confidence to be bold, and make some noise about the huge impact their work has.
We chat about:
what it takes to build and grow a small business, the highs and the lows.
the importance of grit and being able to bounce back time after time.
the need to be really crap at something first, before you can get better.
the dark side of the online world
the truth about passive income
and how the best way to make a real impact and attract the right kind of people to your business is to be bold and brave enough to be yourself, stay in your own lane and do things in your own unique way.
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I'm Lucy Rennie, and welcome to my Future Proof your Business Podcast.
The podcast that provides you with everything you need to know to build solid foundations and ultimately Future-Proof your Business.
I'm on a mission to share my love for small business with you and help you to enjoy the extraordinary ripple effect that comes through harnessing the power of people and relationships.
And I want to make sure that you can reap the benefits of being a business and a brand that people know, like and trust.
I'm a huge champion for small business and a massive believer in the fact that people do business with people.
This podcast is here to inspire you, encourage you and support you on this roller coaster ride that is building, growing and Future Proofing your business.
Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Future-Proof your Business podcast. And this week, it's one of my favourite episodes in the series ‘For the love of small business’ because I've got a wonderful guest with me today, who is the brilliant Rachel Spencer. Rachel Spencer is a journalist and a pet business marketing coach and she works with small businesses in the pet industry, showing them how to share their stories behind their businesses and giving them the confidence to be bold, and make some noise about the huge impact their work has for pets and pet parents.
She runs the Publicity for Pet Businesses podcast and the community, and also has a hub of free resources and support for petpreneurswho want to stand out from the competition. Rachel's a really good friend of mine, and we've been working together for a few years now. And just a little bit behind the scenes. I'll let her introduce herself properly. But she lives in NewCastle with her partner, Tommy and she has got the most gorgeous little terrier called Patch. Hi, Rachel, thank you so much for coming on today with me and having a chat about all things small business. How're you doing?
01:56
I'm good. Thank you. And thank you so much for having me as well. It's brilliant to be here.
Thank
Lucy Rennie 02:00
you, it's just ace, would you like to because I know I've just read your bio, which sounds amazing. And you know, you're doing so many things. But do you want to introduce yourself and tell everyone a little bit more about what you do?
02:12
Rachel Spencer
Yes. So thank you. And yeah, and that bio I was listening and thinking, Oh, she sounds like she knows what she's talking about. So always write yourself a bio. But yeah, so I’m Rachel and I work with small businesses in the pet industry, I used to help them purely with getting press coverage. Now we're moving more towards marketing, general marketing. And one thing that I've really been focusing in on over the last year is confidence building, because that's such a big part of putting ourselves out there. And I've really enjoyed doing that. So that's where I'm at. I know it might sound a little bit woolly, it is general marketing but I feel like the thing that I really love working with people on is building their confidence up to to do this stuff, because it's hard, isn't it?
Lucy Rennie 02:56
Yes, it's so true. And it's such a massive thing, isn't it? I think especially for small business owners have that confidence to be visible or to do the things that you want to do. It's funny, though, that you call it woolly, I'm intrigued. How have you moved? Do you want to tell us a little bit about kind of how you've moved from where you started with kind of it was purely press, wasn't it? Because that's your background, maybe give a little bit of insight into that and, and how actually, the confidence thing is kind of where you're really focusing, isn't it? Do you want to explain a bit more? Why? Because I'm a massive believer in it as well. I think it's so true. Yeah. So
03:27
what happened was, I still do do some journalism, and I worked on the tabloids for years. I worked at the News of the World until 2006. I used to freelance for them a lot until the papers shut down. So that's my background. And then work for like women's magazines like Closer, Grazia, all kinds of different publications or the real life ones as well. And then I got a dog and I didn't want to be out on the road knocking on people's doors and go and interviewing people because of wanted to be at home with my dog. I adopted Daisy when I was back in 2009. So it was the early 30s. And because I wanted to stay at home or with her, I started thinking about okay, can I pitch stories about dogs? And then I started writing more about animals and people making a difference and, you know, different products and different apps that you could use, and all these amazing technology that you could use with your pet and just discovering all this world of being a pet parent, having my own animal not like a family pet. And then I kind of have all these stories, and then there would be sometimes you know, a story might go in a newspaper, it might only be about 300 words, but it was about some really incredible person who was really making a difference. And I'd be like, I just found it frustrating because I wanted to say more. So I decided to start a pet blog. That was back in 2017. Then when I started the pet blog, people would come to me and say, Oh, can you write about my product? Or can I be interviewed or whatever? And I was like, well, yes. And I’d write about them. But then when they found out I was a journalist, I could help with press coverage, and then actually, can you help us with this as well? And it started off as me sending lots of emails backwards and forwards or Facebook messages, that kind of thing. And then I thought, you know what, I'm just going to sit and write a book. So in 2018, I sat down and wrote a book in a month. And Lucy, it's terrible.
Lucy Rennie 05:17
I just love the fact that you said to yourself, I'm just going to write a book.
05:22
Yeah, no, I kind of like, fly by the seat of my pants. So yeah, so I wrote this book. And then, in the book, I thought, well, if anyone wants to ask me questions, I'm going to set up a Facebook group. So they can come if they buy it, and they want to come and chat, then they can come and be in this community. And then that kind of grew. And then that evolved to where we are today, in 2022, where I've got, I've got a mini-membership that's just launched. I do one to one. I have a mastermind programme where people work with me on a one to one on a regular basis. And I have like, all kinds of other different packages where people can come and work with me to learn how to get press coverage and get support. So yeah, so that's me, really. And it all kind of happened. I hate like, it sounds a bit cheesy, doesn’t it? Saying it all happened organically. But it did all happen organically. It just kind of? It just happened? It wasn't planned.
Lucy Rennie 06:16
Yeah. But I think that's for people who know me. But that's kind of the best way, isn't it? When you actually evolve by doing the good things, and by learning and tweaking it, and listening to what people need and all those things, which is really kind of where you've got to today as well, isn't it with the confidence side of things? So, do you want to talk a bit more about this, your kind of ‘Be Bold’ campaign and all the things that you’re doing there as well? Yeah, so
06:37
it's, again, this all happened. This evolved as you've put it in much better than I do. And so what happened was, I decided to do, you've done the same course haven't you? The ILM Level five in Coaching and Mentoring. And the reason why I decided to do that, I started in January this year, and I just found out literally hot off the press, I found out last night that I’ve passed as we're recording this
Lucy Rennie 07:00
podcast, congratulations! Amazing. And it's a lot of
07:03
work. It's, you know, it's a big thing. So I did this, I did the ILM in coaching and mentoring. And it was because I knew that I could show people how to get press coverage. But I felt like I wasn't qualified to teach people or to coach people. So I wanted to learn how to be a coach. But when I did the ILM, you learn loads about yourself as well. And I learned that really one of my real strengths and the thing that lights me up is helping people feel more confident putting themselves out there. And I kind of decided I wanted to do this mini, this smaller course around. And this came from conversations with my clients as well about being bold and being brave. And one of my lovely clients, Sarah, she, we always talk about putting your big girl pants on and doing big, brave scary things. And that might be going and going and approaching an editor at Crufts, or it might be sending off an email or going on the radio or whatever. But she always talks about the big girl pants. So she sent me this badge once and it had this lovely poem on. And this big girl pants bold, being brave, it was all spinning around in my head. And I had a conversation with a lady Alison, who helps me with graphic design. And we were talking about oh, what do we call that I'm going do a little challenge. And what do we call it? and then it just kind of came to us on this phone call about I wanted to call it a boot camp, so that was it, the Be Bold boot camp wasn’t it? So that was my new little core set of did in 2022 did it back in April and had a really lovely experience with it because it wasn't just on press coverage, it was about the steps that you need, that you can follow to be more bold, to feel more confident, put yourself out there and do it in a way that feels right for you. And it was so great to do something different. So I've done that course twice. And yeah, and it's just made me see that, so much that I can give to people or there's so many ways I can help people that doesn't involve just press. And it's about yes, I know that helping people get press coverage was the one thing that I knew that I really could do. And that's how I could put myself out there and get known and help people, but actually I've done that for three years now. It's also working with people, has made me see that I do have other strengths as well. And particularly during the ILM has really made me think about the confidence building and yes just giving people the tools they need and also the belief as well and to feel okay with putting themselves out there and also again I know I’m repeating this, but to do it in a way that feels right for them. So you know people might say oh, you should be on TikTok or you should be doing reels or you should be on LinkedIn or you should be doing whatever, but unless that lights you up, it's not going to work. I hate doing video, like we were talking before we started recording and I was in a panic because I've just got off the spin bike and I look a mess, videos not for me. I'm 46, I've got grey roots most of the time. I don't want to do TikToks, I'll do reels but I'm not going on TikTok but I love doing podcasts because I can rabbit on for ages. So it's about finding what feels right for you. And then when you find that it's easier to be more confident, isn't it?
Lucy Rennie 10:11
Yeah. I love everything that you say. And yeah, I'm such a believer in the fact that when you run a small business, it's not about necessarily scaling or doing like you say, because everybody has an opinion, don't you think? tThey tell you need to be doing all these different things. But actually, if you can really kind of hone in on doing the thing that makes you feel good that works for you, but doesn't make you feel icky. Like you say, going on TikTok or coming on camera this morning to record this podcast, that was so funny when sorry, Rachel, but I thought you were, you had a panic about coming on camera. But I think it's so true. But what I love about what you're saying is that, you kind of started off thinking what people really need is obviously the pet, it's coverage, isn't it, it's press coverage, it's getting themselves out, which is what they need. But the thing that was stopping them wasn't necessarily actually the skill of writing a press release, although that as well. But the fundamental thing was more about actually having that confidence to put themselves out there to be visible, to do the thing, maybe that they're not sure about or and for me, I don't know about you. But for me, I've realised that’s one of the biggest things for small business owners, is having that, I don't even know if it's confidence, but it's having the, being brave enough to be imperfect or to try the thing or just to do the thing anyway, and sometimes be rubbish at it because we can't get better can we if we, if we don't actually try? But I love that you've honed in on that, and that you found kind of almost like the I know, we shouldn't talk about magic pill or keep secret key, but I think there's something there that you're able to unlock, isn't it with this kind of working on the confidence behind the scenes that I know you've, it's helping with the results that people are getting as well, isn't it? So it's massive? Yeah,
11:54
it really is. But the other thing is, Lucy is that I feel like. It's not that long ago that I was in that same position, where I was worried about what people would think of me and I don't, I don't want this to sound like I'm trying to pick myself up here. But there are loads of different people out there who are teaching, we're showing people how to do marketing. And, you know, let's say, you know, someone like Amy Porterfield, she is a humongous mega-marketing superstar. She's a lovely lady, and I love her stuff. But she's, you know, she's a multi-millionaire somewhere in, you know, I think she's somewhere in America, well, obviously, she's in America, but I can’t remember where she lives. But she's, she's really up there. Whereas I'm kind of just like somebody else and real and relatable. And you know what I mean? So I feel like, and also, it wasn't that long ago that I was really struggling with this stuff as well. And I still do, like we've just been talking about video. So I know that might make me sound a little bit clueless. But I feel like people like the fact that you're, you know, you're real, and not somebody who's like this megastar, who can't possibly relate to what they're going through.
Lucy Rennie 13:03
It's so true. I'm exactly the same. And I get scared at everything. And I always have since I was little, but there's something kind of inside that just goes, I've got to do this, or I want to try it. Or if I'm going to invite my clients to try something, I've got to do it myself too. Hence why I started this podcast and the book and all those things. And it's scary as hell isn't it doing it? But I think then sometimes the reward afterwards, when you've actually done it, is amazing. It's a bit like couch to 5k, isn't it? Or even you know, all these things that you've got to be crap at it first to be able to get good at it. And sometimes it's actually the learning and the trying it and the testing it that that kind of well, it helps you to do it better. But also, it's the fun bit, isn't it? So, and it makes you real? I agree with you. Do you think then your clients do?
13:51
Because I was just gonna say writing down, you've got to be crap at it, first to get good at it.
Lucy Rennie 13:57
Yeah, it's so true, though. And I think there's something about, like, you've just mentioned, Amy Porterfield. But I think there's lots of people like that, where they look amazing. And yes, they're great, they’re inspirational, and they kind of make you think, oh, you know, wish I could do that. But actually, would you reach out to work with them? Or actually is there something about you know, seeing a little bit of the the vulnerability or the things that, the flaws or the things that maybe aren't perfect that actually helps you to be more relatable and makes it easier for people to connect and to to approach you or to work with you or to kind of create those relationships?
14:30
You know, we are down to earth for both northern, not saying that people who aren't from the north aren't don't down to earth. But also some people I know would rather go and work on a big programme with somebody who's very established, very experienced, very successful, and that's okay as well. I guess what I'm saying is my the people who come to me like the fact that they have that contact with me, we're chatting on Zoom or I'm in the you know in the Facebook group all the time, that you know what I mean, we're having those two-way conversations and the whole relatable down to earth thing I feel. I feel is yeah, one of our strengths isn't it? because we're not a great big, no offence Lucy, but we're not great big superstars.
Lucy Rennie 15:17
But I think you're so right. And I think ultimately you said it before, but it's about being real, isn't it. And actually, then when you can be real and talk about real things, and the ups and the downs, which is what this podcast is all about, as well, because I want to, you know, I want it to be inspirational, but also, kind of, I don't want it to pretend to be something different. I think we've also got to acknowledge that running a business is hard. And it is a roller coaster ride. And you know, me, I'm always talking about grit as being the most important thing and keeping going or pushing yourself or doing the things and I think the more you can be, really have these conversations or the more you can kind of show a little bit more of you and what's going on. I think it allows you to, first of all, be you, really unique. But it also, it really kind of, I don't know, it allows you to attract your kind of people. And there'll be certain people who look at you and going Oh, my God, I can't believe she’s just come on that podcast all sweaty this morning after being on the spin bike. But there'll be others going, Oh, my God, yes. I love it. She looks like she's a drowned rat, she's just coming from the school run. And I get it. I've got kids too. Or you know, and I think that's the thing, isn't it about finding your people. And the only way you can do that is actually by being really you which is yeah. Which is why I think that confidence. And again, I don't know whether it's confidence or being brave, being brave is the thing for me that I think it's really important. Yeah.
So can I ask you a little bit more then about, I've just been talking about like the rollercoaster ride. So for you as a business owner, because I know you've kind of been on a massive journey as well, from where you've come from, what what have been the highs, if you want to, I don't know, let us into a little bit of your highs and lows, maybe pick one or two kind of key things that are sort of, you know, they've been monumental in your life to switch or to change or to get to where you are today. Do you want to share a little bit of that?
17:09
Yeah, so okay, so interesting this, so when I was preparing to chat to you. I was thinking about the highs and the lows. And I'm totally with you on the grit. So when it comes to that, I'll talk about the lows first. Because I think this low really helps me have that bounce back ability type thing. So years ago, when I freelanced, I used to do a lot of work for the News of the World. And rightly, you know, the newspaper got shut down overnight, because of things that were going on there. And I hope people listening won't judge me on that, I didn't do anything illegal. I was a freelance. And you know, it was a great campaigning paper. And unfortunately, not everybody was working, and ethically and all those things. So that was 80% of my income that vanished overnight. And, you know, it was a shock. But to pick myself up and just find new ways to generate revenue, I had a mortgage to pay and lived on my own at the time. So that was one low. But again, I think it taught me how to just bounce back up. And a more recent low that I had. And I'm being really honest here because I think people need to hear this stuff is I launched my, I’ve got this I used to have this ‘Get your pet business in the press’ online course, it was a 12 week programme. And it did really well for like, two and a half years. And then I launched it in June this year, and nobody bought it. Now, that was really, really rubbish. And I can talk about it now. But at the time, I was just like, oh god, I'm just useless. And you know, I'm just a total disaster. And everyone hates me and what the hell am I going to do? And but what that taught me was that, you know that the appetite wasn't there so much for a 12-week course. So I've switched it up a little bit, and I've done it one to one, that's worked really well. And I've changed my offer now to be it's now a mini that I now have, what I offer is a mini-membership. That's my first offer that I have for people. So it's 15 currently 15 pounds a month. And it's really affordable, really cost of living crisis friendly. Because it's a place really where I want to be able to support people in putting themselves out there and be more consistent with their marketing. It's got, you know, content community, you know, lots of other stuff going on there. So that that low led to me rethinking and switching things up and actually doing something that I really want to do, because I did want to move away from the press stuff anyway, so it ended up working out okay for me. At the time, like I say, I was devastated but yeah, you know, just have to keep going. The other low, was lockdown. So when lockdown happened, I was one of those people who didn't get any money from the government. And I was still at the time earning most of my income from journalism. And I was a feature writer and I’d go and you know, write, write articles, you know, write real life features and that kind of thing. But there wasn't really, because everything was all more newsy or the budgets went, and people weren't advertising. So the journalism work dried up, and I had no help from the government. I think, you know, like, you know, I got a bounce back loan and all that kind of thing, but I just had to keep going. But I also had a community where I felt people really needed support because people were lost, like, they didn't know how to communicate. You know, they really were, everyone was panicking. I had loads of dog walkers and trainers and pet sitters and stuff like that who couldn't go out and work. Everyone was kind of panicking about how do we communicate? What do we do? Oh, my God, this is devastating. It was awful. So I put together like some really short put, I put together like a four-week course about, you know, about communicating in this pandemic. And it was really low, but I think it was like 100 quid, really affordable, and people came and joined. And that was lovely. And you know, it was nice to be able to provide support. And then that led into the first version of my membership. So that was a real high. And the other thing that I launched as well, it wasn't, I had this planned already, but I launched my podcast in lockdown. Now, before lockdown happened I had already set the start date, I think it was the 26th of March, which was literally about the day that we got locked down. So the podcast came out, it started. That was weird. So the first year of lockdown was, actually really, business wise, it was fantastic. So I think my takeaway is you have to, with the highs and the lows, just have to keep going and bounce back. And the quicker that you bounce back the better. And try not to, you know, try not to feel too rubbish about yourself. And that, you know, think about, think about you talked about grit before. Like I always think about, okay, this really rubbish thing has happened and what other crap thing has happened that I've got through and how did I do that. And just keep moving forward?
Lucy Rennie 21:47
Yeah, do you know, there's so many nuggets in all that you've just said, I've just been scribbling. So first of all, I love that expression, bounce back ability, because it is isn't it? It's kind of you've got to pick yourself up, you've got to keep going, you've got to be able to kind of when you know it does go wrong, or when it doesn't go as planned, you've got to, you've simply got to keep going. But I think as well, you talked about obviously, your launch in June that didn't go kind of how you wanted it to go. And I think that's something that, I love about you and what you've done, because it's so easy, I think as well, when it's your business to take it really personally. And to think that it's actually because people like us, you reeled off all these different things of why people didn't buy the course, where and we take it really personally don't when we think it's all about us and how we you know they don’t like us and all those things that you just said, whereas actually, it's just that the environments changing, people need different things, and the world's moved on, especially the world we live in today. There's always something being thrown at us or something's changing isn't there. So I think, for me, that's a real lesson I've learned is that, you know, actually, it's not necessarily about you personally, it's just about the way the world is or how what we clients need and well how their needs are changing, and being able to then adapt to then so first of all, to maybe listen to take that time out to have those conversations and see what they really need and then adapt and tweak your offering or change completely. Like you know, I love the fact now you've got this range of one to ones and your mini membership as well and changing it all up so that it really fits what they're looking for. Which yeah, again is a massive thing. And then you talked about community. You know me, I'm a massive believer in surrounding yourself with the right kind of people. But I think especially in the world we're living in today, I mean, it started probably in lockdown like, like you were saying, but I think there's a real need where yes, it is a lonely world, isn't it being a business owner? And so having that space where sometimes it's not even to necessarily learn anything specifically or get something specific. It's just that peace of mind knowing that you've got the right kind of people there who can help you if you need it or, or yeah, just to feel supported.
23:59
Definitely so I feel like when I was making some notes ahead of chatting to you today. Like one of the things that we came up as things we were going to talk about was about like values and what's important to us. I think one of my biggest things is definitely community and wanting to provide a community where people feel supported, and that they feel part of something and like sometimes, you know, sometimes people slag off Facebook groups and stuff, don't they and I get that. But for me, I love community, I love building communities and I really love Facebook groups and I think God if mine got shut down or whatever, it'd be a nightmare. But I feel like, without wanting to sound too cheesy, like people do want to feel part of something, don't they? and just have a place where they can, you know, share the highs and the lows and stuff. And yeah, and get support and be in a place where you've got like-minded people. And one of the things that I've always really loved about doing courses in all kinds of shapes and sizes and memberships and stuff, is the community side of it. And sometimes people might think, oh, you know, doing the win Wednesday it’s a bit cheesy and threads and blah, blah, blah, it's like, well, that's fine. But you know, when we're on our own, but particularly in lockdown, these things are important. And actually, if something really good has happened to you, you know, I've lived on my own for years. You know, I don't have children. Me and Tommy,, we got together when I was like, 38. But at the time, I was at home a lot. And if I had had a win, I would want to share it in a community in a Facebook group. You know what I mean? It was like, because, you know, the people are behind you, and they're going to, you know, they're going to be really chuffed for you. So, yeah, the community and helping people feel part of something is like, something that I feel really passionately about, particularly in these strange times that we're in at the moment.
Lucy Rennie 25:46
It's interesting, you just touched on it there. But I think there's a bit of a campaign going on at the moment about Facebook groups in general, and whether it's the right place to run your business, or if it should be doing it in that way. I don't know what you, I mean, you've just said that you love your group. But do you think, do you think there has been a bit of a trend? In that sense of maybe, I don't know, too many groups, or lots of groups or different groups? Or what do you think? How can you see? Yeah, what's your sort of thoughts on?
26:17
Do you know what my thoughts are on this? You know, what's to blame for this Facebook group bashing? Don't you? It's the at everyone tag? Oh, my gosh, right. Alright, so I spend at least five hours a week in there to support people answering questions, monitoring posts. I’ve got over 2000 people in there, if somebody writes something nasty on a post about somebody else, I have to be on it and remove that. And, you know, it has happened, I've had people lying to me in there. And then I, every week, you know, do regular free challenges. I put a podcast in there every week, which is high value content that costs me money every week. And then people get, you know, people go mad about using the @ everyone tagI use it about like, I reckon and I probably use it twice a month. I think that's got a lot to do with Facebook group bashing. But also, like, I understand why people would think, don't put all your eggs in a Facebook group basket, because I do feel like Facebook can shut your group down. I've got a client who had her Facebook hacked, they hacked into PayPal, it was horrendous, she had a terrible time. So we are vulnerable on Facebook. But at the same time, we're on Facebook all the time. And it is a good space to build a community because you can have those conversations, you can go live, you can have threads, you can have discussions, it's a really great place. And I know there's all kinds of other ways to do it. But like, I know someone who's using Mighty Networks, and that's great, too. It's really good. I really like how it works. But we're on Facebook all the time. That's a reality. So what I would say when it comes to Facebook groups and why people have been negative is, I agree, it's not a place to build your business. But it's certainly a nice tool for you to have, if you like communities, if you like, if you like that stuff, some people hate it. They don't want to be answering about, you know Follow Friday or feel good Monday, or whatever it is, they think it's a load of rubbish. And that's fine, too. And I feel like, I know you do the same Lucy, like for me, my Facebook group, you know, I ask people if they want one of my downloads when they join, so I have their email address. And if they want to unsubscribe from the list then they can do. So I don't have all my eggs in the Facebook group. But at the same time, I didn't think at the moment, it feels like the best way to have a community, the best and easiest way to have a community and I know the slack and all those other things. But just yeah, I just feel like Facebook is the one that works. So
Lucy Rennie 28:34
yeah, it's very interesting hearing because I agree with you, I think there is a bit of a polemic with the at everyone tag, isn't it. And there's a lot of people complaining about that. So basically, for people who don't know what it is, it basically means that you can tag in everybody in that group to notify them if there's been a, if you want to share a post or something or information with them. And there's quite a lot of people complaining because then they get all these notifications every day from the group. And I've had a few clients of mine kind of go, oh, what do I do? Should I use it should or not and if I'm honest, for me, it's kind of, if you're providing all this free content, you're going out of your way to kind of create this this group then, and you've got the right kind of people in there, then they should want to see what you're doing and a few notifications, I don't think it's hard to, you know, to sort of put up with, if it means that you're not missing out on something. But I agree with you in the sense that I think, with whether it's Facebook, or whether you want to be on something different. I think there's definitely a need to have that community. I think it depends on where your audience is and who you're trying to, who you want in that community as how you go about doing it, whether it is the wins on Wednesday, or if it's on LinkedIn and something different. But I think there's also something that I've seen about the Facebook group bashing, which is more about the fact I think there's been a trend of people. And again, this fits in with I think how people view small business, that it looks easy. And that actually anybody can kind of start a group and do what you want to do. And I think there's been a trend of and again maybe with lock down as well, of people starting up businesses where they've thought, I'm going to start a Facebook group too or I'm going to go on Facebook and talk about things. But then it's not really coming from substance, they've just been kind of doing the thing. And it's just making a lot of noise. And I think there's a few people now starting to, I think what we were talking about before, but starting to call out a little bit, real substance in business and what we're talking about, and whether we're actually really offering value or actually is it just about creating that top level noise to kind of attract people? And I think that's where I think we're going to see a shift as well, of people that maybe are seeing that it's not necessarily, I don't know, it's not necessarily working in the right way, or it's not necessarily adding value in the way that they want to. So I think there's, I can see from some of the things I've been reading, at the moment, a big shift in terms of online entrepreneurs, and what they're doing or what they're selling, and all these different things. And I know we've talked about this as well, but I have actually written down because you talked about the News of the World before, just to kind of go off on a tangent slightly. But you talked about the News of the World and how maybe there were some certain things that were maybe unethical going on there. But I think there's also a lot of that happening today in our online space as well. And I think that's also kind of linked into this kind of calling out, you know, what's going on? And what's happening in these groups. Because actually, there's a lot of rubbish or a lot of things that aren't true or a lot of yeah, stuff that's just, what's the word, misleading people or giving them the wrong sort of sense of, of what's going on. I don't know what your thoughts are on there. But I'm sure
31:35
you've. Oh, yes. So whenever, we were chatting about this, before we started weren’t we and I think I don't, I feel like sometimes I feel like you know, I've been some miserable old trout. But by saying what the reality is. And I know, you know, we both worked with Janet Murray, and she does a lot of this as well. And she does it really, really well. But I feel like, I feel that people just aren't, I’m going to do a podcast about the reality of doing a podcast. So I've got a podcast, and it'll be three years old. So I guess I wanted to share, like, what goes on behind doing a podcast, and what the costs are involved and how you plan it, and how you promote it, and how much time is involved and all that kind of thing. Because my podcast goes into my Facebook group, and I get my podcast ideas from my Facebook group. So I'm trying to serve that community with the podcast, with my free content. But going back to the kind of misleading or unethical stuff that you know, there's a big conversation about that isn't there. I feel like, I just feel like people need to know what it really takes to have, you know, to do this stuff, and I haven't got some, it's not like I'm, I don't have I don't have a six figure business. I don't mind holding my hands up and saying that. I don't have 10 grand months or anything, anything amazing like that. I'd love to, but I don't. And the reality is that I've been chipping away at this for three years, and maybe it might be that I’m rubbish, maybe I'm maybe I'm just doing all wrong. I don't know. But I know that. I know that it takes you know, good things take time, don't they? And when I see people, I've had conversations with people where they say, Oh, I can start a blog, and it's going to make me, I'm going to get adverts on there and it's going to make me money. But I've got a pet blog, it's been in the top 10 UK pet blogs for the past six years. I've worked so hard on it. It costs me money every month, I’ve put my heart and soul into it. I've got authority as a journalist, working on national newspapers in that space. And I reckon I'd probably add £2000 from it in six years. That's a reality. And I'm having conversations where people are saying passive income this, and sponsored posts this, and adverts this, do you want to have a website that's covered in adverts? Which is really it’s not a nice user experience? I personally don't want that which again might mean that I'm not very good at this stuff. Or do you want to be taking, you know, if you had your podcast sponsored Lucy or me? Would you you're taking money from somebody to sponsor your podcast? Are they going to want to have editorial control? Are they going to want you to say, Oh, you need to buy or use this app, blah, blah, blah and rave on about it? Is that editorial control going to be too much? These are the things to be asking yourself, when you're looking at all this stuff about passive income. What are you going to have for that passive income? First of all, you're going to have to do a lot of work to have any kind of passive income, I feel. Because even if it's writing a book, which is passive income, you've just written a book, it takes time. I know I threw mine together. And I guess that's passive income. But it takes time to write. It takes time to promote, you have to keep talking about it. And then if you want to do the whole, you know, the whole influencer thing that I'm hearing people talking about, you've got to build an audience, a community, have some content that's going to, people are going to find valuable. And then also, if you are going to be an influencer and you're going to work with brands, you know, go and have look at someone like Erica Davis, who's the amazing ex fashion editor who, she is just incredible. She works with brands like John Lewis and Marks and Spencers. Her work is amazing. But she's been in journalism for 20 years. And the content that she creates is beautiful. It's so well done. That's, that's a real influencer. You can't go from, you know, I don't know, having a business where you do something or you're passionate about, you know, I don't know, fitness or whatever it is. And then the next minute, people are paying you 1000s of pounds to talk about protein, whatever. Look at Joe Wicks. He's such a great example. He talks about how he stood, you know, he stood in a park in the freezing cold with some kettlebells. And nobody turned up to his boot camp, that was only like eight years ago or something and now look at him. He's flying because he's a good bloke, but he, you know, he did it, he's done the work. So I just think sometimes people need a reality check. And there's so much rubbish being peddled. And it really makes me mad, because I feel like when I say actually, you have to do some work and have at least, you know, a good few 100 people on an email list or, you know, very close to you in a community, before you think about doing an online course or doing something. You feel like you're being a big miserable old witch don't you but it's the truth.
Lucy Rennie 36:16
No, it's so is and you know, we could talk, we could talk about this couldn't we for hours and hours and hours. But interestingly last night, I which talking about confidence and being scared. I was invited. So Manchester Business Breakfast Club had chosen my book as their book of the month, last month inNovember. And they'd invited me onto a zoom call with them to talk about the book, and answer any questions and stuff. So I had no idea what it was going to be like, and I went onto this call last night. I was thinking like you do, what if they don't like it? And what if it's, you know, what are they going say? And one of the first things I mean, first of all, it was, it was amazing. Everyone was so lovely. And it was really surreal to have that kind of feedback and have them quoting things out of the book and going I love this and that. But one of the main things that they were kind of, in their words, astounded by, that they couldn't, like they found really kind of what's the word? Kind of welcoming, I suppose, is the fact that I was saying it's a long game, exactly what we've just been saying about the fact that it isn't, you know, there isn't a magic pill that it does take time, that you have, you know, to actually really future-proof and create something amazing, you've got to kind of, you know, learn to walk and do the things and build that trust and kind of it doesn't happen with you know, it is hard work. And it does take that grit and they couldn't believe that I'd written a book that was saying that at the beginning, and that actually, I wasn't going ‘read this but do this and then you'll make six figures’ or whatever. And they found it really refreshing which was, yeah, refreshing is the word I was looking for. But for me, how’s that? how can that be the thing that's refreshing, you know, small business is a long game, isn't it? It should be normal that we all should understand that it does take time and if you want to build something that feels good for you, then you know, you are going to have to show up, it is hard work, it is you know, it is a roller coaster ride. So yeah, that just kind of confirmed everything that and more of the fact that we need to shout about it even more, because I think, again, looking from the outside in, it can look really glamorous, it can look like we're doing all these things that can look, especially with like kids with YouTubers as well, don't they see all these things? I can do that. Whereas actually, it's even you know, when we see something go viral, they've probably been doing it 15 or 20 years and so well that they know their audience, which is why the post has gone viral or done what they needed to do so yeah, it's definitely a
38:37
long game. Definitely. Yeah.
Lucy Rennie 38:41
Anyway, we could talk about this for hours and hours and hours, but just before so I don't want to take too much of your time again Rach, but obviously I've just said there isn't a magic recipe, but and we've talked about the long game. But is there anything that you, from your years of experience and working with all your clients? Is there kind of maybe two or three things, takeaways, pieces of advice that you want to share? Things maybe we don't think about or things you've learned that would really help your well to my listeners to kind of yeah, future-proof your business and build something that they like you say, in a way that works for them that feels good? What would your advice be for them?
39:22
I love what you're saying about the Manchester book club. And yeah, and you are totally refreshing. I know we are, I know we're singing from the same hymn sheet because we are no BS. But what you are, you are totally refreshing and I feel like that is a biggie it is. It is about being yourself from the start. So if I look back on what I used to think and feel when I first started thinking about working with small businesses, I used to think I'd have to be like, dressed all business, and be all smart and be like all formal and write perfectly, you know. I put my social media posts through Grammarly. I mean, God, I never do and say not as I do, especially given that I'm supposed to be a professional writer, but I just don't worry about those things anymore. So, you know, the first thing would be, be yourself and don't feel like you have to be all businessy or all whatever. Just be you because you'll find people who like you. And then the second thing, and this, this came up, I was on Facebook before we started chatting. And someone, somebody Helen Mottram her name is, she's lovely. She runs a pet professional network, and it's a big community of pet professionals. And such a really supportive place. But she's a friend, and I'm in there as like an affiliate member, I help people with the press and any questions on press coverage. Anyway, she did this lovely shout out for me this morning. And I was like, Oh, this this is nice. This is a surprise. And somebody a lady called Vicky, who's been on one of my courses, and she's in my mini membership popped up and said, Yeah, the thing I really like about Rachel is she really cares about people. And I think that's it, it’s as simple as that, like, show that you care.
One of my favourite testimonials is from this lovely lady, another lady called Claire, who's also a dog trainer. And she said, the thing about Rachel is she just really gives a crap.
And then she talked about the stuff I wanted to talk about, but it is like, just give a crap about people. I feel like the worst thing you can make people do right now, is to make people feel that they are a number, that they are, you know, one of hundreds or 1000s or you know what I mean? That you don't know. I've been doing a five day, not five day three day challenge at the moment. And anyone who's in there who I don't already know, I have written down what their business is. So if I'm on a Facebook Live, I can say right, you know, here's Laura, she’s a training and scent expert, scent work expert. So I don't want to be on Facebook Live going, oh, what do you do, Laura? And that's in a free challenge. So like, just give a crap and don't make people feel like they're a number.
And another thing that I'm going to say as well which again, oh Rachel, she doesn't know what she's talking about, some people might listen and think this but I don't, this is just my feelings. And it comes back to being a number. I've seen some you know, when you see people posting about how they've got a tripwire product, and does this and that you know, they've got these funnels and they're in the funnel because they've done, you know what, people publicly posting, talking about putting people in funnels. And I think that sounds terrible! You don’t want to feel like you've be shoved in a funnel and chewed up through someone's sales machine. People don't want that, they want that personal touch, they want to feel like people care about them. So that's my advice, make people feel heard, part of something special, and that you give a crap. I love
Lucy Rennie 42:45
that it is it's that goes back to me saying about the leaky bucket is actually just focused on looking after your customers and doing a good job and making them feel special. And yeah, like you say, not a number and not part of a sales kind of, yeah, funnel or whatever that is, but just show you care. And it doesn't take a lot does it? It doesn't actually take a lot to show up and to be interested and to actually be grateful and to, you know, to really kind of engage with the people that come to you and work with you or even just come in your part of your community is that know, like and trust and all those things that for me is the essence of it. So I love all that. And yeah, being you is what you were saying, isn't it? So
43:30
I was scared about being myself. I used to be really worried about people finding out that I worked on tabloid newspapers. And now I just think that I can't hide it. It's all over LinkedIn. It's not like I've murdered anyone or anything, it's just it's okay to be you, isn't it?
Lucy Rennie 43:43
Do you know I think there's a Dolly Parton quote isn't there? It says something like,
“find out who you are, and then do it on purpose”.
But I think it’s one of the hardest things in the world is to really be you and embrace yourself and be okay with being you. I wish they’d teach it a bit more at school. I wish they'd helped you know, I wish that you kind of start to learn these things earlier on. Because I think once you can do that helps with everything, doesn't it? But yeah, I think if we can keep going and it comes back to what we started with, isn't it but it's being real, being imperfectly perfect and really giving a crap, I think is a perfect way to end the podcast. Can you share with us, Rach? If people want to find out a little bit more. I know you've got a brilliant podcast and are you doing wonderful things? Do you want to share how people can get in touch with you? And obviously we'll put all the links in the show notes. But what do people need to know?
44:41
Yes, so if you want to find out more, my website is publicityforpetbusinesses.co.uk
If you do want to get press coverage, and you can follow any of the advice on there and just take out all the stuff about dogs and cats and pet businesses and it will work. And then if you come and find me on social media, I'm at Rachel Spencer UK on all platforms. And apart from TikTok so don't go there. So come and find me.
Lucy Rennie 45:06
I'm gonna get you on TikTok soon.
No, that's brilliant. Thank you. And I think what Rachel was saying as well, because she's so so good and such an expert in everything that she does. So even if you don't have a pet business, go and check her out, go and check out all the resources. And like she says, just take out the references to cats and dogs or pet business and apply it to your business and it will work wonders as well. And you'll be able to get so much value from that. So yeah, go and check Rachel out. I'll pop all the links in the show notes but thank you so much, Rachel, for coming on. And I think we could probably have chatted for hours and hours and hours. But I'm conscious of time. So thank you so much.
45:46
Oh, thanks so much for having me Luce. It's brilliant to be here. Thank you.
Thanks for listening to the Future Proof Your Business podcast. I've been your host, Lucy Rennie, I hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you have, then I'd love you to head over to Apple Podcast, Google Play, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast and hit the subscribe button. And I'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a review and a rating and help me to reach even more small business owners like you who want to build a business they love.
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